Would it perhaps be a good idea to open up ALL options for the alpha test? To make a catfolk pc I need the APG, makes sense, but perhaps during testing phase open all of it up? That way I can test everything for free.
Another handy thing would be being able to purchase just the specific option you want to include.
Pricing way too high for “just unlocking” character options that are part of the SRD
Thanks for posting!
We never want to take things away from fans, so no, we don’t want to give the impression those options are freely-available and have to restrict that later. For the kind of feedback we are looking for in the Closed Alpha, the freely-available options will do the trick.
This is on the list and planned. We’re not completely sure when unlocking options individually will be released in the overall release cycle, but it is definitely on the roadmap. We’ll share more as we have more information.
The Cleric is freely-accessible because it is included in the Pathfinder Primer source (which is the content Paizo has identified as free). The Druid is not included in that source.
As for why the options outside the Pathfinder Primer require a purchase to unlock, I’ll share the summary I’ve shared in a few other threads here:
Pathfinder NEXUS will have three core features when it is fully launched - the Game Compendium, Digital Reader, and Character Builder / Digital Sheet:
We are following the pricing model for all of the official Paizo partners out there - game mechanics are freely-accessible (which would be all the content in the Game Compendium), with the book content itself in digital format (the Digital Reader) and the character tools (Builder / Sheet) requiring a purchase to unlock the content for use on the platform. This model is in place for all other partners too (AoN, Herolab, etc.)
Having said that, we have some other factors at play that will make that easier when it comes to the upcoming character tools:
- Demiplane Members can use content sharing with up to 24 other accounts. This means that for any content you own as a member, once you share with your group(s), they can use that content in the Digital Reader and Character Builder / Digital Sheet as if they owned it themselves. This is intended to virtually replicate the concept of passing a book around a table with your friends.
- We have the Pathfinder Primer that includes four classes and multiple ancestries, backgrounds, feats, items, spells, and more that is entirely free. So any player can use any content in the Pathfinder Primer in the Digital Reader and Character Builder / Digital Sheet without a purchase or membership.
Players will be able to create characters and play without needing to unlock anything, but groups also have flexibility to unlock more options if they desire to do so for play.
Yeah just found out regarding the Primer (edited post)
Sorry, I try wrap my head around the rest
As stated, the game mechanics are freely-accessible … including all the class options, features, etc. of all the books
Does that mean that the complete Game Compendium will be open to anyone? even without buying any books?
(Would be great assuming it would be MUCH faster; and easier to use than other sites.)
Why do these freely-accessible (class) mechanics require to be unlocked through a purchase to build a character?
There are official supported tools (and more) where all these mechanics do not require a purchase to unlock the content on the platform. You can create a character with all the possible options.
It would be technically absolutely possible to unlock all class features in the Character Manager and you don’t have to restrict them later … but I understand why you don’t want to do that … of a business PoV
Therefore, I hope you understand why I struggle to justify 75-100% extra cost over the Paizo content for
- Game Compendium: freely-accessible content …
- Digital Reader: pathfinder books incl. Artwork … essentially the PDF, which we also get, in a different format …
- Character Management: freely-accessible class mechanics … but needs to be unlocked to be used
In the case of D&D such things simply did not exist, because nearly nothing beyond the essential core game mechanics was freely-accessible.
It does not lower my cost/pain of the purchases.
Content sharing is part of the separate paid feature “subscription” … with recurring costs
Yes, all the game mechanics are free to access in the Classes, Ancestries, Heritages, and Archetypes Primers and the Feats, Spells, Items, Creatures, and Backgrounds Listings. Other game elements will be added to the Game Compendium over the course of Early Access as well (such as Deities, Rules (“general” ones), Traits, etc.).
Not if that officially supported tool is a character builder / sheet. The only other such tools that are official Paizo partners would be Herolab, and then the VTTs like Roll20, Fantasy Grounds, etc. All of those require a purchase to use specific options in the character tools. I’m aware that there are community-developed character tools that do not require a purchase, but those are not officially supported (and perhaps stretch / break the intent of the community use policy).
Aside from all of that, I’ll also affirm that we believe that the value, usefulness, and quality of these tools (once we finish developing them) warrants the cost associated with them.
It’s awesome to hear that the game mechanics on the Demiplane PF2 Compendium will be open to everyone.
Just for completeness, there is at least one official platform, where all the game mechanics including character options are available, without requiring an additional purchase, fully supported by Paizo.
It is probably listed under “etc.” … I assume you know which one
I am aware of community-developed character tools (Pathbuilder, Wanderersguide, etc.), but that is another story. Their use should be okay (good enough), as long as they stick to the SRD content only, i.e. no official art, settings, lore, etc. … that is the trade off
I am really looking to see the “final” Demiplane PF2e product …
… however … don’t buy a product based on the promise of future improvements/value
so as of now the value is not there … YET …
I will be keeping (bad)eyes open and fingers crossed
I agree with @setuka. I understand the core of business model is on players purchasing access to options in the character builder (or a DM sharing that through a subscription).
However, I find it really weird in Pathfinder 2e case, in which Paizo has decided to officially endorse and support the Archives of Nethys as a compendium that allows access to all published mechanics and character options for free. They even list it on their website as “Online System Reference”, along with Demiplane being listed as “Official Digital Toolset”
I for sure love the ease of access a digital character sheet on Demiplane can provide (Dndbeyond did wonders for my gaming groups), and as a software developer understand the operational cost of these features being designed and developed. So I understand money has to enter somewhere in the equation.
It just feels weird in this case where as opposed to other roleplaying games, Paizo has always endorsed sharing paid resources in an online system reference (for both Pathfinder 2e and 1e)
I’ll still keep an eye on Demiplane of course I really like the promise of what you are building (not only for Pathfinder but for many other small systems )
I was wondering if any digital goods bought from paizo will show up here too, I feel kinda cheapened out that im buying PDF copies of the books from Paizo and now I have to rebuy them even after linking my two accounts?
So I understand your question correctly, what do you have in mind when you say digital goods?
PDF copies of the books, I recently just bought them from Paizo and now I’ll have to rebuy them from your store, for the same price, for the same content?
Are we still able to invite friends to the character tools alpha? No matter what I do, I get “Cookies Must Be Enabled To Display Form” on the invitation page. I have tried multiple browsers, private windows, disabling security settings completely, etc. I’m definitely allowing cookies.
FWIW I also get a “Check Again When Your Alpha Test Access Is Granted” button, even though I do have alpha access.
That’s an interesting issue. Could I get you to fill out a support ticket so our team can look into why the form seems to believe you don’t have access? https://support.demiplane.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
Sure can, thanks!
Ah, okay. Initially I thought you may have been referring to something else.
What we offer here at Demiplane is a separate product from the PDFs that you can purchase from Paizo (although if you buy a book from us, you do get the PDF from them for free). Here are a couple of the differences that we offer:
- We have completely reformatted the books to be easier to read on the web, especially on smaller screens.
- We’ve added links and tooltips that you can hover over for quick references while reading the text, including cross-references to other books, relevant mechanics, and stat blocks.
- Adventures come with high resolution maps with both GM and player versions that you can print out or use in your favorite VTT.
- And by purchasing content here, you can use them in the character builder, which will ultimately streamline character creation, help keep track of all the math, and give you a beautiful and easy to use character sheet for your games.
- If you become a Member, you can share everything you own with up to 24 of your friends and fellow players, to capture that same feeling of sharing books around the table.
We’re biased, but we do think there’s a lot of value in being able to access everything on the go, sharing it with your friends, and having all of the resources you could need in one easy-to-use place.
I ONLY buy new books here now. Getting the pdfs for free at Paizo helped me make that decision. It is very worth it. And being able to share…
Regarding this Foundry VTT includes this for free and they are as I understand it an official partner of Paizo.
Does This Mean I’ll Need to Buy The Bestiaries Again To Use the Bestiary Monsters?
The data for the bestiary monsters is covered under the Community Use Policy (and our agreement with Paizo) and are available for free as part of the Pathfinder Second Edition game system. We think this level of supported content in the free system brings a lot of players to the community, and we see no reason to change that.
We know there are a lot of dedicated GMs and Players out there with shelves full of Pathfinder books who don’t want to re-purchase content they already own. The simplest answer to this question is: you will not need to pay to access anything that the PF2e game system currently includes for free. Our focus will remain on giving other reasons to buy our products by offering a way to experience that content that isn’t available anywhere else.
This quote is taken from Paizo Partnership FAQ | Foundry Virtual Tabletop
With that said to use Foundry VTT you need to buy a license for the software or use Forge, but that is not different than a Roll20 subscription I figure.
I’ll share what I shared to a similar comment on Reddit:
I only know what Paizo has shared with us. I know that Foundry has had active community development for some time, well before they have added some official modules more recently.
If I’m guessing, that is likely a holdover from that community development - I can’t say whether that will continue to be the case or not.
So no one reads into what I’m saying there too much, I’m simply saying that we are operating off the direction we received from Paizo and I don’t actually know what that means for Foundry as they transition to doing official modules / content.
My apologies if I am echoing a statement made earlier.
I understand the business model of why APG is an add-on and I concur with other’s requests about doing “al a carte” pricing.
One feature that I would like, and is core to the people I play with are that if we already own the content from Paizo, we would appreciate the option to either have that unlock features within the tool (aka I own CRB and APG from Paizo and don’t want to rebuy especially since it would cost me $70 for what I already own) OR we at least can get a HEAVILY discounted version, such that the cost covers Demiplane development fees instead of paying Paizo for a 2nd copy.
(Logistics and contract rules unknown) my envisioned method is that we log into/digitally link Demiplane to our Paizo account to validate the purchases, or we provide the serial number from our copies.
I will say if I am trying to get new people into PF, it will be tough to get them to join on with the limited free classes and the heavy price tag for the basics. My personal thought is that if you want new players to jump in easy I would suggest character building from the core rules be free, but you can buy the digital access to the core rules to read through the rest if you so desire.
When comparing to other systems such as Roll20, the reason I have chosen not to use them and rather to maintain my personally built character sheet is because of the prices for the content I already own.
Hi, Minty! I’m just a user here… but… You already get a pretty hefty discount if you own the pdf from Paizo. You don’t pay for the pdf again. So that feature already exists. You already link with Paizo through Paizo connect and “poof” you have the discount.
And I only buy new books here because it unlocks the pdf at Paizo.